Arsène Wenger

The Arsenal
#344

Before Wenger, Graham won the League twice, the FA Cup, the League Cup twice, the EUFA Cup, as well as being the losing finalist in the League Cup.
He did this in eight seasons.

I’m not saying Graham is a better manager than Wenger but to suggest we would be have been similar to clubs like Aston Villa, Newcastle, Everton, West Ham and Newcastle, and not the big club we are now, is nonsense.

Graham didn’t spend money either, in fact we had no world class players when we won the league against Liverpool and the most expensive player was Alan Smith for 800k.
Also the team that won the first two PL titles for Wenger included most of the defence that Graham had assembled, and was instrumental in Wenger’s success.

3 Likes
#345

C’mon, George Graham won 7 trophies with Arsenal but has left the squad into the darkness because of his shocking methods to be compliant with a bunch of players with serious problem with drug, alchool and depression. George Graham, in my eyes, will remain a very good manager watching only the palmarès.

Arsène Wenger won the first two leagues with his qualities, tempting to recover dead players.

Arsène Wenger has been the perfect man during the perfect time, in the perfect place, to save this club from the mediocrity like Newcastle or Nottingham Forest.

#346

George graham left the club in disgrace because he took a Bung then went on to manage Spurs

Funny that he couldn’t turn Spurs or Leeds into what Arsenal became after he left us seen as some mugs try and say he is responsible for wengers success

#347

[quote=“Kaner, post:346, topic:125”]
Funny that he couldn’t turn Spurs or Leeds into what Arsenal became after he left us.
[/quote]What do you mean iit’s funny that he couldn’t turn Spurs or Leeds into what Arsenal became after he left us?
My point was that we were a successful club before Wenger, so there is no reason to suggest we would have won nothing without him and been mid table.[quote=“Kaner, post:346, topic:125”]

seen as some mugs try and say he is responsible for wengers success
[/quote]Who said that?

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#348

One could argue we’re not exactly a big club either anymore. But a level beneath that.

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#349

If true, That one should never be allowed to hold an opinion about football.

#350

Well. That’s just your opinion.

1 Like
#351

Graham may have won trophies but Arsenal were still inconsistent.
Graham competed in a different era where everyone bar Liverpool were inconsistent.
One season they would finish fifth, next 12th.

90s when United started dominating plus with marketing PL became a money churning monster, only clubs who were consistent would gather up fan base.
Only clubs who were consistent in PL would go on to be big clubs in future. Manchester United was one and because of Arsene Wenger, Arsenal became the another.

Chelsea & City needed cash influx. Even Liverpool are not the same as before as they became inconsistent since 09.

If not for Arsene Wenger, Arsenal would have continued being inconsistent and as I said, became just like Villa, Everton, West Ham etc.

There would have been no Emirates as well.

Villa and Everton have I believe 10 & 8 English title respectively; yet where are they now despite being in PL all these years.
If they had Wenger, Arsenal would have been in their place and they ours

1 Like
#352

As Maxi said, Wenger was the right manager at right time and fortunately for Arsenal at right place.

Other 18 clubs failed to capitalise on the right time.

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#353

What ifs. If Ferguson chose for us back then, we might just have been the biggest club in England and might actually have some European trophies. But he didn’t.

#354

That would count but Ferguson rejected Arsenal almost a decade before Wenger was appointed.

Arsenal had several years to get a manager of Ferguson’s calibre to become a big club.

Chances are if not for Wenger, Arsenal would have continued to struggle to find a manager capable of making Arsenal big, especially given how shit English managers have been & how reluctant the league back then was in hiring foreign managers

2 Likes
#355

It’s true that we were inconsistent, but Graham built a defence that was the best in Europe, even if the attacking football we played wasn’t that exciting.
He also won all those trophies, including the league twice and a European trophy in just over eight seasons, which is a lot more than Wenger has done in the last eight seasons, or more, here.

[quote=“Trion, post:351, topic:125”]
90s when United started dominating plus with marketing PL became a money churning monster, only clubs who were consistent would gather up fan base.
[/quote]I used to go a lot to Highbury in the 80’s and 90’s and we always had a great fanbase.
It was different then because some matches there would be a crowd of around 20k, and others there would squeeze more than 50k in the ground so, regardless of Wenger, we have always had the support, even when we were mid table and playing unattractive football.

[quote=“Trion, post:351, topic:125”]
Villa and Everton have I believe 10 & 8 English title respectively; yet where are they now despite being in PL all these years.If they had Wenger, Arsenal would have been in their place and they ours
[/quote]This might be true, but then there might have been other managers that could have done a good job here.

I have often said on this forum that Wenger, in his first eight seasons here, was the best manager in the PL, and that his record was better than Ferguson and Mourinho, because what he did for us, those two could never have done unless they outspent every other club, and a lot of other poster criticised me saying that Ferguson won more trophies and was more successful.

So I am in agreement with you that Wenger was the greatest manager in that period.
But things have changed and he no longer has that magic touch that he used to have, like spotting potential talent and turning them into world class players, or being a pioneer in attacking football and playing a style of football that was the envy of almost every club in Europe.

Up until a few seasons ago, I would defend him and couldn’t understand people attacking him but he has become stubborn and stuck in a previous era that means we aren’t moving forward, and he keeps repeating the same mistakes every season.

To me he is the greatest manager we have ever had, but in recent seasons he has been caught up by other managers, and unless he starts to change and adapt, and stop repeating the same needless mistakes, he is going to struggle to keep up.

4 Likes
#356

**[quote=“Maxi_Gooner, post:345, topic:125, full:true”]
C’mon, George Graham won 7 trophies with Arsenal but has left the squad into the darkness because of his shocking methods to be compliant with a bunch of players with serious problem with drug, alchool and depression. George Graham, in my eyes, will remain a very good manager watching only the palmarès.

Arsène Wenger won the first two leagues with his qualities, tempting to recover dead players.

Arsène Wenger has been the perfect man during the perfect time, in the perfect place, to save this club from the mediocrity like Newcastle or Nottingham Forest.
[/quote]

Oh please fuck off with this bollocks about us being in the championship without Wenger.
Its the weakest argument of AKBs. Its based on absoulutley nothing.

2 Likes
#357

Oh please fuck off with this bollocks about us being in the championship without Wenger.
Its the weakest argument of AKBs. Its based on absoulutley nothing.
[/quote]

Not championship, but Midtable.

It’s based on trend of Arsenal’s history.
Arsenal have never had a decade of consistent performance in their history before Wenger.

Probability of it continuing remains very high, if Wenger was not introduced.

#358

The 30’s?

2 Likes
#359

My bad. That period did define the club, which separates it from usual clubs.
So 2 consistent decade in 128 years.

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#360

While Wenger’s pre-Emirates reign was VERY good by anybodies standard, he still wasn’t really dominating seeing as he only managed 2 title wins. granted both of them were doubles, but it’s still only 2 wins from 8 seasons if we use pre and post-Emirates as a divide.

#361

On paper, Wenger’s contribution in terms of trophies is not significant.

But the timing of it is perfect

  • PL became BPL & was heavily marketed since 95.
  • The decline of Serie A started around that period,
  • La Liga was not aired at right time in Asia,
  • Brazil winning the WC with likes of Ronaldo really caught everyone’s attention in non-footballing countries,
  • ESPN expanded it’s coverage globally & broadcasted PL matches for ‘Big 4’ clubs

And most of all
INTERNET - Youtube compilations of Henry, Bergkamp etc; forums, social media.

It was crucial to have been successful in this era, more than any other because the exposure became high in this era.
CL became this powerful because of this.

To win PL in this era, & winning PL by being unbeaten was very very crucial to acquire fan base & reputation.

The timing & platform was there for every club in PL to capitalise but only 2 managed to do so.
Manchester United & Arsenal.

New fans who wanted to be edgy & go for clubs not supported by masses went for Liverpool(certainly helped by them winning cups).

& How very well did United & Arsenal capitalised that it took massive influx of money into Chelsea & Arsenal going into austerity for Ashburton Groove that the stronghold of 2 was finally broken.

Since it is coming from AKBs, people aer quick to dismiss but the timing & the manner with which Wenger won, has made this club a big club & distance themselves from Aston Villa, Everton & West Ham. Those 3 clubs & Arsenal were at equal footing during mid 90s but one accelerated away.

1 Like
#362

I’m being picky here, and only addressing a tiny part of your post, but West Ham have never been on our level in terms of whether we are big clubs or not. They’ve never even won a single league title, the highest they’ve ever finished is third lol.

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#363

True, but I added them because they serve the London club comparison with impressive fan base.(Didn’t want to compare Spurs with us was another reason to choose West Ham)
Aston Villa, Everton & to some extent Nottingham Forest provide comparison of trophies.

1 Like